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Post by Geberia on Oct 15, 2005 12:47:34 GMT -5
I don't mean to do this poll to offend any of you who are Catholics. I believe a Catholic can be saved and still be a Catholic. But I don't believe a regular Catholic can go to heaven just on good works. What is your opinion?
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alamo
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Post by alamo on Oct 15, 2005 22:40:19 GMT -5
I totally agree with you. My uncle is a catholic as well as many of my friends and I see both sides of it.
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bimbettes
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God is love. Those who live in love live in God, and God lives in them!
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Post by bimbettes on Oct 16, 2005 5:34:24 GMT -5
but catholicism is just another form of christianity i thought? like im part of the church of scotland some ppl are part of the catholic church? I was always told that christianity is like a big circle ad then there are smaller denominations enclosed within in it like protestant and catholic.
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Post by Saint James Island on Oct 16, 2005 22:26:14 GMT -5
I believe a catholic can be a christian, yet I do not think a devout catholic could. Catholocisim offeres no reassurance of salvation if followed strictly.
It all depends on how well they know the Bible.
I believe most catholics, and most popes, will be in hell...
Sorry..
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Post by New Titania (TD) on Oct 17, 2005 0:51:51 GMT -5
Lest we forget that the Catholic church was the ONLY Christian church for centuries...
Of course Catholics are Christians! Just as much as ANY denomination of the Body of Christ is! To get to heaven, you have to believe that Jesus is your Lord and Savior, and you must repent of your sins. How can you even say that the Pope is going to hell? Come on... That's like saying Mother (almost Saint) Teresa is going to hell. Nu uh, don't think that'll happen (I don't KNOW of course...that's God's department).
So, my answer is, YES.
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Post by gynovia on Oct 17, 2005 17:34:16 GMT -5
i tend to agree with St.James Island on this one. i think that some catholics are christians but i don't believe that all catholics will go to heaven. i believe that the only way to go 2 heaven is salvation through the grace of God, not by good works. i know some catholics believe in salvation through good works. but none of us are good enough to go to heaven by ourselves.thats just truth.- however, i'm sure that there are some catholics that are christians, theres always exeptions.
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Post by Geberia on Oct 17, 2005 17:42:39 GMT -5
In other words, you have to believe with your heart and confess with your mouth as it says in Romans. Many Catholics believe IN God, but they do not believe what God said in Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast." Yes, Catholics have been considered to be "Christians" for nearly a thousand years. So in that sense they are "Christians." But I guess the proper poll to this would be "Do you believe you can get to heaven by good works?" The pope, mother Teresa and such are very good, but it dosn't matter at all is they're not saved.
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Post by Armany on Oct 17, 2005 19:10:09 GMT -5
How can you even say that the Pope is going to hell? Come on... That's like saying Mother (almost Saint) Teresa is going to hell. Nu uh, don't think that'll happen (I don't KNOW of course...that's God's department). I would have to disagree, TD. You are assuming that because of the Pope and Mother Teresa's well-known good deeds, they are guaranteed a ticket to Heaven. I disagree with that. The Pope of Mother Teresa could look good on the outside and do all the right Christian things, but they could be A. introducing deceptive and anti-Christian doctrines; or B. not be real Christians themselves. I'm not saying that either of these characters actually have the two traits that I have discussed (I would say that they are certainly in Heaven, but I don't know ;D), but I am saying that you can't judge a book by its cover. My pastor could go to Hell. I could go to Hell if I sin and fall away from God. Anyone that is a Christian could feasibly backslide and go to Hell. And there could be some professed Christians that go to Hell. That's where I diverge from you. |
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Post by Armany on Oct 17, 2005 19:11:24 GMT -5
In other words, you have to believe with your heart and confess with your mouth as it says in Romans. Many Catholics believe IN God, but they do not believe what God said in Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast." Yes, Catholics have been considered to be "Christians" for nearly a thousand years. So in that sense they are "Christians." But I guess the proper poll to this would be "Do you believe you can get to heaven by good works?" The pope, mother Teresa and such are very good, but it dosn't matter at all is they're not saved. Amen to that, Gebreria! I would hope that all Catholics will go to Heaven. |
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Post by New Titania (TD) on Oct 17, 2005 19:29:53 GMT -5
i tend to agree with St.James Island on this one. i think that some catholics are christians but i don't believe that all catholics will go to heaven. Of course not all Catholics are going to go to Heaven! Not all Evangelical Christians will be going to Heaven either. My point being that not every single self-proclaimed Christian will be going to heaven. Armany, yes, I do see your point...and it's a good one at that. However, if John Paul is burning in Hell right now, it's not because he was a Catholic, but because he wasn't a Christian. |
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Post by Aslan the Great Lion on Oct 17, 2005 20:27:49 GMT -5
Great point TD. You go to hell becaue you are NOT a Christian, not because you are something else. Even though they kind of seem the same.
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Post by Saint James Island on Oct 17, 2005 20:30:12 GMT -5
The reason I say many catholics are going to hell, is because they add so many elements to christianity. Salvation as a strict catholic is very complex...
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Post by New Titania (TD) on Oct 17, 2005 23:19:25 GMT -5
Catholics accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior (at least, as a Church, their doctrine indicates such.) So what if they do "good works" on top of that? Jesus is the Key to Heaven...period.
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bimbettes
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God is love. Those who live in love live in God, and God lives in them!
Posts: 165
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Post by bimbettes on Oct 18, 2005 5:33:26 GMT -5
I'm still with TD!
The Christian religion is the same just followe in different ways. Catholics read the same bible and so how can they not go to heaven if they've read that? the instructions are pretty clear
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Post by Aslan the Great Lion on Oct 18, 2005 7:25:12 GMT -5
It doesn't really matter what you read though. If they don't believe then they will go to hell. I have heard they do add some things, but if they don't follow or believe those and believe the right way, then they will go to heaven.
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Post by gynovia on Oct 18, 2005 10:50:28 GMT -5
i don't t know bimbettes. i think the Bible makes it pretty clear how you go to heaven.
so Armany, do you believe in eternal security? you believe that when you sin and fall away from God even though you're a christian that you are in danger of going to hell?
i believe in eternal security, but what about yous all?
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Post by Geberia on Oct 18, 2005 11:36:30 GMT -5
Well the thing with most Catholics (my mom's family is mostly Catholic) is that they believe that Jesus was God's son and that he died on the cross, but they don't believe he is the way to heaven. At least that is what some Catholics teach. They believe that by being a good person, and doing good things, they can MAYBE make it to heaven. Mostly Jesus is like a saint to them. I don't agree with alot of stuff the Catholic church teaches (no offense) like purgatory and baptism as a baby. But that's for another time. It is great if a Catholic is saved and doing good works on top of that, as TD said. Hey, that's what I try to do!
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Post by Geberia on Oct 18, 2005 11:39:52 GMT -5
Lest we forget that the Catholic church was the ONLY Christian church for centuries... Actually there was other Christian churches that sprung up during the time the Roman Church was in power. Think of the followers of Wycliffe, Huss, etc.... they just were persecuted by the Church so they didn't last long. |
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Post by New Titania (TD) on Oct 18, 2005 12:26:35 GMT -5
OK, then, the only major Christian church for centuries.
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Post by Geberia on Oct 18, 2005 16:41:16 GMT -5
right.
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Post by Armany on Oct 18, 2005 17:16:20 GMT -5
Lively debate...
Catholics do accept Jesus as Savior. That means that they should go to Heaven. I don't think all will, because from what I have experienced with Catholicism, it's more about getting Holy Communion, saying Hail Mary, going to Mass, and doing good things than it is about living by faith.
The same could be said about Protestants, though. I'm just saying that Catholicism tends to stress works more than faith, IMHO. There are plenty of Protestants that do the same, don't get me wrong.
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alamo
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Post by alamo on Oct 18, 2005 23:46:32 GMT -5
Once again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was let down into the lake and caught all kinds of fish. Matthew 13:47 There'll be all sorts of us in Heaven some you expect and others you don't. THe opposite is also true some people you though were going to Hell will be there and some you thought were gonna be there are gonna be in Hell.
Let's let God decide who'll be ther and who won't He knows best anyways.
1 Corinthians 4:5
Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God.
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Post by gynovia on Oct 19, 2005 11:10:36 GMT -5
yeah, it's not really our place to say who goes to heaven or not, God knows, but it does make for an interesting debate!
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Post by Geberia on Oct 19, 2005 16:48:52 GMT -5
I agree with what Alamo said. We should try though, as much as we can to make sure that these people know they're saved.
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Post by falklands on Oct 21, 2005 18:18:53 GMT -5
I personally know catholics who believe in God's grace and am sure they are going to heaven. Some people from EVERY denomination are not going to go to heaven because their faith was superficial... it applies to Evangelicals as well. About Mother Teresa - the Bible in various passages says that faith, not works, makes you a Christian, BUT... works represent the strength of your faith. A good Christian should be full of good works even if it doesn't effect his/her salvation. I would say it is safe to assume Mother Teresa went to heaven. But I can never say for sure if someone is a true Christian or not. God does that. But many times you can tell by what they do.
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