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Post by gynovia on May 15, 2006 15:08:27 GMT -5
Yes, we are. Creepy, I didn't think we'd ever reach this point ;D. oooooh. *drum roll* What a moment. ( and it will propably only last for a moment) i sit at my computer in awe  ;D lol |
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Post by gynovia on May 23, 2006 12:28:45 GMT -5
wow. this has lasted alittle longer than a moment lol. I thought Hog or Falklands would be around to break this silence  |
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Post by Geberia on May 24, 2006 15:42:03 GMT -5
I have been meaning to, but havn't had time. I was going to point out some things from Acts 8 abotu baptism, when the eunuch gets saved and THEN baptized. In other words he had to believe on Jesus before Phillip would baptize him. I will get around to it, one of these days.....:/
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Post by heartofgold on May 24, 2006 22:27:12 GMT -5
This is something I think everybody on this forum is misunderstanding me on. All I said was you needed Baptism (in general). I did not say, however, that Baptism was ALL you needed.
Baptism is not the only requirement for salvation. You also have to have some sort of faith.
So in other words, yea, your right. But that isn't what I'm saying.
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Post by gynovia on May 25, 2006 13:51:28 GMT -5
Baptism is not the only requirement for salvation. You also have to have some sort of faith. . baptism isnt a requirement for salvation though. Faith is. |
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Post by Armany on May 25, 2006 14:48:59 GMT -5
The brief period of agreement seems to be slipping away! LOL ;D
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Post by heartofgold on May 25, 2006 15:28:49 GMT -5
I just had this argument a page ago. Apparently you weren't there (shocking!).
"He saved us . . . by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit . . . so that we might be justified by his grace" (Titus 3:5–7).
"Unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God." (John 3:5)
"And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." (1 Cor. 6:11
"Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." (Acts 2:38).
Now before we do anything else, I would like to draw attention to the last verse. Notice that it says, Repent and then be baptised (this might be the verse your looking for Geberia). So Catholics don't believe that baptism is the only requirement.
Now, that said, as you can see, there are a lot of places in the bible that portray Baptism as more than just a symbolic ritual.
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Post by gynovia on May 25, 2006 19:36:57 GMT -5
The brief period of agreement seems to be slipping away! LOL ;D lol yeah, and i have to go ruin it ;D shame on me.... |
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Post by gynovia on May 25, 2006 19:44:51 GMT -5
I just had this argument a page ago. Apparently you weren't there (shocking!). "He saved us . . . by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit . . . so that we might be justified by his grace" (Titus 3:5–7). "Unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God." (John 3:5) "And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." (1 Cor. 6:11 "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." (Acts 2:38). Now before we do anything else, I would like to draw attention to the last verse. Notice that it says, Repent and then be baptised (this might be the verse your looking for Geberia). So Catholics don't believe that baptism is the only requirement. Now, that said, as you can see, there are a lot of places in the bible that portray Baptism as more than just a symbolic ritual. yeah, okay Hog, but i think alot of those verses are mis-read. for example, you listed Titus 3:5-7 ...by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit...... imho, the whole washing, is refering to Jesus washing away our sins and cleansing us...... but, you've convinced yourself ;D so..... i'll catch up to the rest of this later...... |
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Post by Geberia on May 27, 2006 14:55:07 GMT -5
Then, why baptize infants? A baby can't have faith or works, why should it be baptized?
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Post by heartofgold on May 29, 2006 11:08:14 GMT -5
Because of what Baptism is. You want to get that as soon as possible. Some people (St. Augustine being a famous one) though you wouldn't go to heaven if you weren't baptised (which is where Limbo came from).
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Post by Geberia on May 29, 2006 17:07:34 GMT -5
That makes it sound more like a ritual than a part of professing and personally accepting Christ into your heart. I suppose you believe then that St. augustine is wrong, seeing as you believe armany will go to heaven being unbaptized  |
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Post by heartofgold on May 30, 2006 13:12:10 GMT -5
Well, technically it is a ritual. However, rituals aren't bad things. Its an extremely important ritual.
"Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."
That's what happens at the ritual. You really get the Holy Spirit. So the fact that it is a ritual doesn't really mean anything.
Well, mostly. Frankly I don't know, and there isn't enough evidence one way or the other to formulate an opinion. However, there are a lot of good people who don't get baptized, and God's not going to throw them into hell.
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Post by gynovia on May 30, 2006 15:30:41 GMT -5
You said this earlier: Now, that said, as you can see, there are a lot of places in the bible that portray Baptism as more than just a symbolic ritual. you kinda seem to be contradicting yourself....so, in your opinion, is baptism a ritual, or not?  |
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Post by heartofgold on May 30, 2006 18:24:03 GMT -5
It is a ritual (technically, being a "Religious Ceremony"), but its not just symbolic.
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Post by Geberia on May 31, 2006 9:22:22 GMT -5
Because of what Baptism is. You want to get that as soon as possible. |
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Post by heartofgold on May 31, 2006 17:42:47 GMT -5
Well, I think the Age of Reason comes into play here. If your old enough to figure out what's going on, then you would "repent and be baptised." However, because of what Baptism is, and it being the thing you really want to get as soon as possible, you get it as a baby with your parents making the decision for you.
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Post by Geberia on Jun 2, 2006 13:23:10 GMT -5
But there is no example in the Bible of anyone being baptized without FIRST confessing that they believed in Jesus Christ. Phillip wouldn't let the enuch be baptized until he knew that he believed in God( Acts 8: 36:37). It is demonstrated here that without faith, baptism should not happen. Babies cannot have faith, and their parents cannot make them have faith. They can pray for them, sure, but belief in God, a.k.a. salvation is a personal decision. No one can save you for yourself, its up to you. And even if the baby dies, I believe that babies will go to heaven, since they are not of the age that they can understand that they're sinners.
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Post by heartofgold on Jun 16, 2006 19:23:10 GMT -5
OK, sorry, for the delay. Week long vacation, among other things, keeping me away.
Well first off, there are some examples. Verses like Acts 16:15, Acts 16:33, and 1 Cor. 1:16 make mention of people and their entire households, which would include Children. The reason there aren't any specific examples is mainly because everybody was a convert, so they'd believe then be baptise. However, just to turn the tables, nowhere does the bible talk about a child who made some personal decision, then got baptised. In fact, it usually assumes that children in christian households were Christian.
Another interesting thing to note is that in Col. 2:11–12, Paul calls Baptism the replacement for Circumcision, which was something done at birth. That is something you have to realize, when you scratch a Christian, you should find a Jew. So, having a replacement makes perfect sense.
As for Babies going to heaven, I probably agree with you. They certainly don't go to hell, and most Catholics now would accept your theory (although Limbo is still out there).
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awaz
Junior Member
Posts: 97
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Post by awaz on Jul 28, 2007 22:31:10 GMT -5
I recall some point in history where baptism was what completely cleansed you of your sins. However you could only ever do this once. So people would commit sins and live their life like normal, then right before they dies they would be baptized to forgive all their sins and then they would try no to sin in the few minutes right before they died.
P.S. I recently read the apocrypha and thought it seemed just a BIT far fetched.
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;D lol
