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Post by Triphus (Titanian) on Jan 20, 2006 17:17:56 GMT -5
Ok, I'm gonna be gone all weekend and I have to leave shortly. (going to a church retreat thingy) so i'm gonna lay down a couple brief definitions.
The key to debate is making sure we have the same definitions on things and I think that if we simply defined magic and witchcraft that would make it easier on all of us. Simply put here is mine:
Magic: A bridge between the narrow border of the Physical Realm and the Spiritual Realm that allows passage from the Spiritual Realm to the Physical Realm and vice versa.
Witchcraft: The act of bringing hateful, demonic things, from the Spiritual Realm into the Physical Realm.
Magic has no good or bad it simply is. I personally believe it was built as a bridge between the Physical Realm and the Spiritual Realm by God. Withcraft is the act of using that bridge to bring demonic things into the Physical Realm.
That's all i can say right now, gotta run................please don't get to far ahead while i'm gone.
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Post by falklands on Jan 20, 2006 18:08:59 GMT -5
I still say that Magic and Witchcraft in this world are the same, but in the fantasy world they are different.
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Post by heartofgold on Jan 20, 2006 18:51:04 GMT -5
Well, that's OK, except that Harry Potter (or LOTR) doesn't have any spiritual realm.
Which would mean Harry Potter isn't witchcraft. Like I said, there is no Spiritual Realm in Harry Potter. Plus, he's not bring hateful, demonic things into the Physical Realm.
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awaz
Junior Member
Posts: 97
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Post by awaz on Jan 20, 2006 22:24:00 GMT -5
Very good point.
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Post by Geberia on Jan 21, 2006 9:50:25 GMT -5
Well, that's OK, except that Harry Potter (or LOTR) doesn't have any spiritual realm. Which would mean Harry Potter isn't witchcraft. Like I said, there is no Spiritual Realm in Harry Potter. Plus, he's not bring hateful, demonic things into the Physical Realm. But then why is Harry called a witch if he's not really one? Harry is always messing with the Spiritual Realm when he does magic. |
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Post by Armany on Jan 21, 2006 10:07:23 GMT -5
Magic: A bridge between the narrow border of the Physical Realm and the Spiritual Realm that allows passage from the Spiritual Realm to the Physical Realm and vice versa. Witchcraft: The act of bringing hateful, demonic things, from the Spiritual Realm into the Physical Realm. Magic has no good or bad it simply is. I personally believe it was built as a bridge between the Physical Realm and the Spiritual Realm by God. Withcraft is the act of using that bridge to bring demonic things into the Physical Realm. As expected, I disagree. By your own definition, you admit that magic splits the gap between the spiritual and physical realms. This right here causes some red flags top go up in my mind. By your definition, any type of spiritual connection could be defined as magic. People talking to their deceased loved ones via mediums? By your definition, that's magic, because it's not involving demons and such (or it's not supposed to). Someone casting a spell upon something for good measure could also be classified as magic by your definition. So this means that Wiccans really aren't messing around in Satanic realms whenever they cast spells and such, eh? I don't think that's what you mean, but by your definition, one could consider these things as "innocent" magic. If your definition is accurate, Titanian, then we'd have to classify Harry Potter as "good" magic, because, as Heartofgold has pointed out, no spiritual things (demons, etc.) are involved. I think that you and I certainly don't think Harry Potter is innocent, but your definition seems to make us see things that way. I'm not picking on you, Titanian. I'm just trying to prove that all magic/witchcraft is evil. |
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Post by heartofgold on Jan 21, 2006 11:26:18 GMT -5
Well first off, he's a wizard. Get it right  . But this is my point. Does Peter Pan "mess with the spiritual realm" whenever he lifts off? Real magic in this world is never good. I would agree with Armany there. I don't think there is such a thing as "magic" in our world. Its all witchcraft, and thats bad. But in a fantasy world, like LOTR, or Narnia, or Harry Potter its fine. It is magic. There is no spiritual realm, so they can't be contacting it. In this fantasy world, magic is OK. They're just doing magic, like Peter Pan. By the way, this is called Plagiarism (look at Falklands above posts). ;D |
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Post by steelsheen on Jan 21, 2006 11:59:27 GMT -5
I thought the term was warlock.... male witch.
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Post by falklands on Jan 21, 2006 13:34:58 GMT -5
Hey! Stop taking my ideas!  Wait, it's doing more good than bad so nnggkkrhummarhummagnzkzzzzz.... ;D |
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awaz
Junior Member
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Post by awaz on Jan 21, 2006 13:41:46 GMT -5
It's still only fiction.
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Post by falklands on Jan 21, 2006 16:30:31 GMT -5
Fiction can still have a bad effect in some cases (look at the Da Vinci Code - it's fiction yet people eat it up like it was factual history)
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Post by steelsheen on Jan 22, 2006 16:21:29 GMT -5
I think in that case it's ignorance of the truth- they think that all that crap is actually in the Bible.
It's not, in case no one's ever read that.
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awaz
Junior Member
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Post by awaz on Jan 23, 2006 20:21:04 GMT -5
The Da Vinci Code was written, I think, to ruffle some feathers, so it would sell. and it worked. The book was on the New York Times Best Seller list for 142 weeks straight. but the book is both politically and spiritually incorrect. The people who CHOOSE to create a religion based off the book, or any book, are CHOOSING to do so. Yes it hurts them, but what percentage of the people who read the book create religions. My guess would be the ones who have a week Worldview are the ones this kind of book touches. they lack fulfillment, so they latch onto whatever comes around. They need to be reached out to, not bashed because of what they do. No matter what they do it is still their choice to do so. The book doesn't send out vibes that hypnotize the reader and cause them to do these things. The person chooses to.
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Post by heartofgold on Jan 27, 2006 13:10:59 GMT -5
The Da Vinci Code was written for the sole purpose of being controversial, so it sold. Everyone likes controversial books.
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Post by Geberia on Jan 28, 2006 14:31:53 GMT -5
Well first off, he's a wizard. Get it right . But this is my point. Does Peter Pan "mess with the spiritual realm" whenever he lifts off? Real magic in this world is never good. I would agree with Armany there. I don't think there is such a thing as "magic" in our world. Its all witchcraft, and thats bad. But in a fantasy world, like LOTR, or Narnia, or Harry Potter its fine. It is magic. There is no spiritual realm, so they can't be contacting it. In this fantasy world, magic is OK. They're just doing magic, like Peter Pan. Well, he goes off to witch-school, dosn't he? The whole point of whether or not harry potter is bad is not based upon what the book contains, in my opinion. it is based on how it would hurt or damage your reputation as a Christian. Maybe harry Potter is the same as Peter Pan. but I would certainly get a differnt rection from my parents if I told them I liked Potter! It just has negative connotations in my "circles" and I would rather just stick to the stuff I know is good and okay for me. |
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Post by falklands on Jan 28, 2006 14:40:51 GMT -5
Good for you Geberia.
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Post by Armany on Jan 28, 2006 19:21:22 GMT -5
I pretty much agree with you, Gebreria. I take it a step further, though: Harry Potter does contain witchcraft, and, like any other fantasy story/movie that contains witchcraft, it is bad.
Some of my friends read it, and I have tried to convince them of its bad spiritual undertones. Overall, I believe that I fall into that lonely minority that doesn't like Harry Potter and that is usually accused of bigotry or "censorship" whenever something bad is said about it.
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Post by heartofgold on Jan 28, 2006 19:50:23 GMT -5
Guys are wizards, girls are witches. Hence Merlin, wizard, and Glinda, witch.
Well, that's great. I'm proud of you. But, a lot of this stuff just comes from the fact that Potter is popular. Now, my parents (who actually liked the books when they read them) were really suspicious of them. Wizards and witches, and its popular. That's not good. But its not just Wicca spells being cast back and forth from the good guys (who are just as evil as the bad guys) to the bad guys. Its a fairy tale. Its a fantasy world. Like Peter Pan.
Harry Potter doesn't have bad spiritual undertones (I'm not really saying this to you Armany, just to anyone who thinks LOTR doesn't have bad spiritual undertones). There are all sorts of things you can glean from Harry Potter books.
For instance, the good guys are good, and the bad guys are bad. Here you have Harry, "The alllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll American boy!" (except he's English, but that's beside the point). You route for Harry. And then there are all his friends, who are also like-able. And they run around and get in trouble like any good teenager at boarding school should. And then there's Dumbledore, the headmaster. Of course he's a good guy. That's the best part of all the books is when he gets up and says, "I'd like to say a few words. Bluddment, oddball blubber, tweak. Thank you." He's your standard eccentric professor. And so it goes.
Then you have the bad guys. Starting with Voldamort, ruined Harry's past, going around DRINKING BLOOD AND CONTROLLING PEOPLE (ahem ahem), of course he's the bad guy. Then his posse hangs around, nearly as evil as they are. One of there kids is at school, of course he's a bad guy.
My point is you don't have any of this annoying, "the good guys are just about as evil as the bad guys (though I spent a while on it)."
There's friendship, forgiveness, courage, fighting evil, all sorts of stuff you can get from these books.
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Post by Geberia on Jan 29, 2006 8:22:40 GMT -5
Okay, seeing as I've never read the books and never plan to I'll take your word for it that it has all of what is contained above. That stil dosn't chage my take on it though. Any story dealing with witches and wizards can have that, and still have evilness portrayed.
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Post by New Titania (TD) on Jan 29, 2006 10:05:22 GMT -5
Any great novel or fantasy story must have "evilness portrayed." It's called, like heartofgold said, good guy, bad guy .
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awaz
Junior Member
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Post by awaz on Feb 2, 2006 18:34:09 GMT -5
Sure, the Harry Potter website might take you to bad places (I want proof) but there are bad websites about ANYTHING. LOTR The Lion The Wich And The Wardrobe have bad websites you will come up with when you search for them, or anything else.
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Post by Armany on Feb 5, 2006 12:20:30 GMT -5
Any great novel or fantasy story must have "evilness portrayed." It's called, like heartofgold said, good guy, bad guy . "Great" novels can include evil in them, so long as they portray evil in a bad tone and villify it, not glorify it. Harry Potter portrays witchcraft in both good and bad ways, thus both glorifying (some of) it and villifying (some of) it in the same breath. I'm not going to argue why I think Harry Potter contains bad spiritual undertones again, but my support can be found on the previous page of this debate. I guess I'm just too lazy... ;D |
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Post by heartofgold on Feb 5, 2006 22:33:55 GMT -5
But this goes back to it being a fairy tale. For instance, in Sleeping Beauty the seven fairies (or something like that) give the little princess magical gifts. Then a long comes the witch and casts the spell. One of them is portrayed as good, the other evil. However, people accept Sleeping Beauty as good literature anyone should read, but Harry Potter's should be part of a mass book burning. Why?
Well, if I remember correctly (I'm lazy too ;D), you didn't think any of this fantasy stuff was OK. Great, good luck with your crusade. I think your dead wrong, but its nice to know someone cared enough to formulate an opinion like that. I'm also glad its a logical one ;D.
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awaz
Junior Member
Posts: 97
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Post by awaz on Feb 21, 2006 11:18:06 GMT -5
Fantasy/science fiction rocks. :-)
Being lazy rocks:-)
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Post by Mariocity on May 18, 2008 16:01:54 GMT -5
Have any of you actually read them?
I have and they are completely harmless.
I mean,It's not like people are believing in this stuff or trying to use majic or something.(Other than one or two crackjobs)
Most of my friends that are christians have read them.I read all seven and i'm not practicing witchcraft.
I don't think J.K.Rolling meant for anyone to believe the books are real.
PLUS
I don't think that people would be able to use majic if they tried.(Unless they have given thier souls to the devil)
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Wait, it's doing more good than bad so nnggkkrhummarhummagnzkzzzzz.... ;D