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Post by fallenone on Jun 23, 2006 0:05:54 GMT -5
ahem, since homosexuality is genetic(marker Xq28), "God" must have wanted them to be gay, who are you to question God's plan?  There's absolutely nothing wrong with being homosexual. |
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Post by heartofgold on Jun 23, 2006 11:20:32 GMT -5
Well, er, the bible says its a sin.
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Post by [Satanic] Mikor on Jun 23, 2006 11:22:08 GMT -5
Well, er, the bible says its a sin. Well, er, human genetics says it is natural (in those who have it), so we cant be blamed for genetics can we? If god disliked it, why leave a genetic margin of error? |
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Post by heartofgold on Jun 23, 2006 11:39:25 GMT -5
And I would say that's true (for the most part). s, in general, say they really can't help it, and I don't think that's the sin (or at least, the sin we'd think of). Same way straight guys are sometimes really really, um, attracted, to woman they're not married to. That's being tempted to do something wrong, but so long as you don't you're mostly clean. I think s work the same way. Being tempted to er, be , isn't entirely their fault.
Being is something that came around as a result of the fall, just like . The desire to kill somebody wasn't "natural" until after the fall. So long as you don't kill anybody, however, your good. Same with being .
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angel
New Member
follow slaanesh, lord of pleasure
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Post by angel on Jun 23, 2006 11:46:33 GMT -5
meh... i r bi-sexual
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Post by fallenone on Jun 23, 2006 13:39:22 GMT -5
Well, er, the bible says its a sin. the bible says wearing anything with two different fabrics, is a sin. Deuteronomy 22:11 (KJV) Thou shalt not wear a garment of divers sorts, as of woollen and linen together. my shirts fine, 100% cotton, but Do my pants having a polyester/cotton combo, smite me? |
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Post by heartofgold on Jun 23, 2006 14:07:06 GMT -5
But that was for Jewish ceremonial purposes. While a lot of the ceremonial stuff (such as no pork) went out with the birth of Christianity, anything moral it said does not.
Thus said,
"Because of this, God gave them over to shameful s. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with for one another. Men committed acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve , they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them." (Rom. 1:26–28, 32)
is a New Testament passage banning ity. This is not Jewish, nor ceremonal, therefore I think you have to accept it.
Technically, using your logic, I could go somebody right now and it wouldn't matter, because while the bible says "don't ," it also says, "don't wear... whatever it was (lazy moment)." But obviously I can't do that, nor can I ignore what it has to say on ity, or any moral issue.
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Post by fallenone on Jun 23, 2006 14:40:02 GMT -5
But that was for Jewish ceremonial purposes. While a lot of the ceremonial stuff (such as no pork) went out with the birth of Christianity, anything moral it said does not. In the new testament Jesus made it clear that he did not come to abolish any laws, and that they must endure to the end. remember, according to Christianity, Deuteronomy is part of the pentateuch which supposedly is the literal word of God as told to Moses. One cannot simply ignore them on the bases of "Christianity wiped it away" because the only law Jesus repealed was unclean foods. 1). This is a reference to greek temple worship (Greeks often incorporated sexual behavior in temple worship). 2). "God gave them over" implies that prior to these events they were naturally hetrosexual, they didn't commit homosexual acts until after "God gave them over". They were criticized because they were engaged in sexual activity which was unnatural for them. From my point of view, this is paul(who really has no authority anyway) commenting on the unatural acts of ex-christians who had joined pagan fertility religions and took part in sexual temple worship which involved some (but not always) homosexual acts. I would contend that this says nothing against people born homosexual, it is merely against people who do such things against there own nature. being an atheist...  i will assume you meant to add the word "kill" in there. my logic is simple, either take the biblical laws seriously in their entirety, or simply use it as a guidline for life which contains many laws which are no longer acceptable in modern society. And no you can't kill, because their are secular laws against that. If you havent noticed, the bible isn't exactly the word of law anymore.  |
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Post by heartofgold on Jun 23, 2006 22:23:09 GMT -5
He didn't abolish any laws, he did, however, abolish some Jewish ceremonies and Traditions, there is a difference. Moral laws stay the same.
Well, Paul is telling other Christians this is wrong. It comes out to the same thing, weather he's talking about Greeks or not. And yes, Paul does have some authority, what with Apostolic Succession and all that.
Oh, well in that case, we'll just throw the bible out the window for the moment (I would like to ask, however, why you read it ten times in your life if your an atheist.)
Alright, we allow all s to be .
Problem number A: No more babies. If we just allow ity to run rampant, I suspect percentages of s would shoot up drastically, meaning just something else in the world taking away people. Loss of population poses a serious problem. Who pays the Social Security and medical bills for senior citizens? A lot of economical problems come with being .
Problem number B: Health problems. The life expectancy of a in nearly 25 years younger than normal, and that's not good. A lot of medical problems would come with being .
As a Christian, yea, I have to take it in its entirety (minus the Jewish traditions). I don't see any laws (other than old Jewish customs) that don't work in today's society.
But if you killed somebody, you'd go to prison, that's it. I was thinking in terms of something bad happening to bad people in the afterlife, and good things happening to good people in the afterlife. However, for your mindset, you're right. Killing is illegal, ity is undecided.
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LilyJ
Full Member
Dedication and obsession go hand in hand sometimes....
Posts: 188
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Post by LilyJ on Jul 3, 2006 21:58:52 GMT -5
Some of the passages can ahve meaning we may not realize. For example, there's a verse somewhere that says women shouldn't have short hair or "braided hairstyles". Well... nowadays nobody considers that a sin, right? Turns out that back then, those were the hair-do's prostitutes wore, and the verse was against prostitution. Now, I don't know about the fabrics one, but I bet there's somethign similar behind it.
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Post by Aslan the Great Lion on Jul 3, 2006 22:29:11 GMT -5
ahem, since homosexuality is genetic(marker Xq28), "God" must have wanted them to be gay, who are you to question God's plan? There's absolutely nothing wrong with being homosexual. except that that he says he doesn't like it and 2 towns were DESTROYED for it, that's all so he doesn't like it, i would almost say he hates it and it is not genetic, I will not believe that. it is not natural, so how can it be genetic? the Bible talks about it to those who are not Christian, but to Christians the Bible is everything I would also like to know why those who are not Christians and just plan on arguing are in the forum "Christina Teens"  If you can't open you mind and stop criticizing everything, then why are you here? |
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Post by steelsheen on Jul 4, 2006 6:04:30 GMT -5
Homosexuality is not genetic. It does sometimes have to do with extra testosterone or... crap, too early to think of what it is that women have more of. Anyway. It's not always like that though.
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Post by Geberia on Jul 5, 2006 13:32:28 GMT -5
There is also a verse in the Bible that refers to people who are homosexual ( by choice), saying in Romans 1, I'll start with vs. 20 for context but focus on verses 24-27, " For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful, but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. *Here's the verses I want us to focus on* Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleaness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves; Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections, for ever their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet."
People CHOOSE to be gay, homosexuals, etc... as we see here, and God lets them because they reject him and want to do things with their own wisdom. As you can see, the results are not very good ( the end of vs. 27).
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Post by Aslan the Great Lion on Jul 5, 2006 16:14:02 GMT -5
so NOT genetic, if you believe the Bible
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Post by steelsheen on Jul 5, 2006 16:25:22 GMT -5
Oh, and the reasons for mixed fabrics being banned was it would totally make you itch, or wear inequally.
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Post by heartofgold on Jul 6, 2006 12:10:22 GMT -5
Well, the only problem I have with this view is previous experience says otherwise. A lot of good people have claimed to be , and struggling with it too. Now if you go *cough cough* with another man, that you did by choice, and that's a sin, and also, I think, might be what Romans 1 is talking about. Having some sort of attraction toward another of the same sex isn't necessarily a sin, just like me having the urge to go kill person(s) isn't necessarily a sin (well, it is, but its kinda different). But if I go kill somebody, that's a pretty bad thing. If I'm , great, but if I go *cough*, then that's not good.
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Post by gynovia on Jul 6, 2006 13:16:14 GMT -5
Well, the only problem I have with this view is previous experience says otherwise. A lot of good people have claimed to be , and struggling with it too. Now if you go *cough cough* with another man, that you did by choice, and that's a sin, and also, I think, might be what Romans 1 is talking about. Having some sort of attraction toward another of the same sex isn't necessarily a sin, just like me having the urge to go kill person(s) isn't necessarily a sin (well, it is, but its kinda different). But if I go kill somebody, that's a pretty bad thing. If I'm , great, but if I go *cough*, then that's not good. huh? urges? what are you talking about??? I think God makes it pretty clear about whats right, and whats wrong. People make their own decisions. these so called "urges" or "attractions" are not from God, and people are not " just born like that".. can you say 'excuses' boys and girls? lol. |
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Post by steelsheen on Jul 6, 2006 18:15:31 GMT -5
It's not a sin to be tempted. It's a sin to yield. Even Jesus was tempted, in all manners that we are, but he never yielded. Therefore, the sin is in falling, not hearing that silky little voice telling you how much fun it is, and everybody's doing it, and why shouldn't you? After all, ye shall be as gods!
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Post by heartofgold on Jul 6, 2006 23:36:09 GMT -5
Perhaps I should have replaced "urges" with "temptation." Temptation doesn't come from God, but lets face it, we've all wanted to kill somebody really bad at one time or another. Sin and all came around as a result of the fall, and that's where ity came from too. So just as you are tempted to kill somebody, you're also tempted to *cough* with others of the same (just some of us more than others).
Exactly.
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Post by Geberia on Jul 7, 2006 10:22:26 GMT -5
I guess I can see both viewpoints. However, there is a difference between being tempted by the devil to sin, and having the urge to sin. But didn't Jesus say that if you lust after someone in your heart, you have just as much as commited adultery? Lust to do something like that is a sin, and I think it goes for lusting after someone of the same sex too.
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Post by nella on Jul 11, 2006 12:18:59 GMT -5
The laws of this country are made to protect the people. Homosexuality is abnormal and harms people, therefore there should be a law against it.
~Nella
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awaz
Junior Member
Posts: 97
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Post by awaz on Jul 11, 2006 21:17:30 GMT -5
I repeat what I said like three pages ago, why would God have created someone with something He condemns built into them? And if you say He only condemns people who CHOOSE it, that's grading a sin (I'm just sorta responding to all the posts I missed). As far a God ranking sins goes, No sin is worse than another, however, and I quote, *ahem*,
Matthew 18:6 But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.
That's ranking sins if I ever heard anything.
But I repeat myself again, why would God have created someone with something He condemns built into them?
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Post by steelsheen on Jul 12, 2006 9:36:55 GMT -5
After the fall many things happened that weren't supposed to happen. We die- we get sick. We sin.
The farther along in the world time we get, the worse our corruption (physically) gets. We fall below the level of the humans before us.
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Post by nella on Jul 12, 2006 12:31:45 GMT -5
God doesn't make people with a built in desire to be homosexual. People have desires that are godly, and people have desires that are ungodly.
How is Matthew 18:6 ranking sin? All it is saying is that you shouldn't lead children astray. Is that ranking sin?
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Post by steelsheen on Jul 12, 2006 17:33:42 GMT -5
It says clearly that whoever harms a child will be worse off than Sodom and Gomorrah. (Homosexuals) so, yeah, I think that's one of the queen mothers of sin.
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