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Post by gynovia on Dec 2, 2005 11:30:37 GMT -5
( a place where un-baptized babies go) ohhhh. thank you for clearing that one up. i was like, why does he want to abolish the limbo??? hehe yeah, doesn't look like any one is changing views on this debate
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Post by New Titania (TD) on Dec 4, 2005 0:24:21 GMT -5
lol, no, we're all stubborn...
One point I MUST get accross, though, is that CATHOLICS ARE CHRISTIANS....and DUH.
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Post by heartofgold on Dec 4, 2005 14:41:48 GMT -5
lol, no, we're all stubborn... One point I MUST get accross, though, is that CATHOLICS ARE CHRISTIANS....and DUH. Well yea, but if thats all we're debating, than this debate was over a long time ago. Unless St. James Island wants to come back. That would make it a little more interesting. Come back St. James Island!!
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Post by New Titania (TD) on Dec 5, 2005 0:23:53 GMT -5
Heheh, you can send him a TG if you want to!
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Post by heartofgold on Dec 5, 2005 14:07:27 GMT -5
Heheh, you can send him a TG if you want to! Yes, but that would involve work!!
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Teckor
Full Member
.........what am I supposed to write? Something inspiring?
Posts: 154
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Post by Teckor on Dec 5, 2005 16:26:27 GMT -5
Tough subject.
All depends, if they have salvation then I'd go yes, if not no.
Both are similar but different. Really close yet really far from each other.
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Post by heartofgold on Dec 5, 2005 16:46:19 GMT -5
Good Idea How so?
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Post by New Titania (TD) on Dec 5, 2005 17:55:48 GMT -5
Of course they believe in Salvation by Jesus Christ....they are a Christian church!
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Post by heartofgold on Dec 5, 2005 18:11:17 GMT -5
Contrary to popular belief...
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Post by Armany on Dec 5, 2005 18:23:12 GMT -5
I think they're a Christian church with slightly messed up theology. There's my argument in a nutshell. ;D
Then again, many Protestant denominations have doctrines that I consider even more "messed up" than Catholicism, so I'm not singling out Catholics.
HOPEFULLY, that'll be all that's said here.
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Post by heartofgold on Dec 5, 2005 18:42:01 GMT -5
Exactly what part of there theology is messed up?
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Post by Geberia on Dec 5, 2005 19:44:55 GMT -5
Well, as I said in the beginning of the debate, I titled the question wrong. It's not "Are Catholics Christians?" more than, "Does doing good works get you to heaven?" That was the point I was really trying to get across. And I think that if Catholics think they can go to heaven by works, they're clearly wrong and I don't consider them Christians. If they are saved, and just like a member of the Catholic church (as heartofgold is here) then I do consider them Christians.
That was really my argument against the Cahtolic church - that works cannot get you to heaven. it seems like everyone here agrees with me on that point.
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Post by falklands on Dec 5, 2005 20:22:03 GMT -5
Exactly what part of there theology is messed up? For example, praying for saints to intercede on our behalf, revered statues/images of the saints, and what Geberia said - although not all Catholics do these. Basically, a lot of rites and traditions that were not a part of the Early church, being put into effect a long while after Paul, I do not agree with. Plus the whole works/faith thing, although only some Catholics may believe that works alone get you to heaven (Although I know this applies to other denominations as well). One other issue is the concept that the Catholic church is Christ's only church, derived from the verse in Matthew 16 - "And upon this rock I shall build my church." A Catholic friend of mine said this referred to Peter (The first Pope, he said), but I disagree, and say it refers to the fact that Jesus Christ "is the Son of the Living God." But all this might not apply to you; I don't know the full extent of your beliefs.
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Post by heartofgold on Dec 5, 2005 22:16:02 GMT -5
Well, as I said in the beginning of the debate, I titled the question wrong. It's not "Are Catholics Christians?" more than, "Does doing good works get you to heaven?" That was the point I was really trying to get across. And I think that if Catholics think they can go to heaven by works, they're clearly wrong and I don't consider them Christians. If they are saved, and just like a member of the Catholic church (as heartofgold is here) then I do consider them Christians. That was really my argument against the Cahtolic church - that works cannot get you to heaven. it seems like everyone here agrees with me on that point. NO Catholic believes that all you have to have is good works to get you to heaven. BUT we believe that we HAVE TO HAVE good works. As stated in James 2: 14-25. No teachings just sprang up after Paul. The Catholic Church does not introduce new teachings. However, it does confirm old ones. For instance. For 1500 years there was never any question of the Immaculate Conception. But than the issue came up, so the Catholic Church made it official in 1854.
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Post by New Titania (TD) on Dec 6, 2005 0:56:47 GMT -5
What do you all think about Vatican 2?
(After that Catholic wedding, heartofgold, I'm glad!!! ;D ;D)
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Post by heartofgold on Dec 6, 2005 1:58:06 GMT -5
What do you all think about Vatican 2? (After that Catholic wedding, heartofgold, I'm glad!!! ;D ;D) I'm with you. I think all Latin masses are a little, um, well you don't participate very much, which is a little annoying. However, I (personally, but most catholics don't think so) like the old prayer book better. I used to be Episcopalian, so I got to say a lot of "thees and thous". I think thats really cool. But the catholic church uses a newer prayer book, they say "You", instead. So overall, I actually like the Episcopalian service better, but don't agree with a lot of what they say (and do).
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Post by New Titania (TD) on Dec 6, 2005 2:14:08 GMT -5
I went to a Benadictine rite Monestary (the only monestary in this part of the US) where they didn't adhere to Vatican 2 in their services and spoke/chanted in Latin the entire time. YEAH....confusing. I mean, if we were all living in ancient Rome and speaking fluent Latin, it would be a different story.
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Post by gynovia on Dec 6, 2005 16:07:25 GMT -5
Well, as I said in the beginning of the debate, I titled the question wrong. It's not "Are Catholics Christians?" more than, "Does doing good works get you to heaven?" That was the point I was really trying to get across. And I think that if Catholics think they can go to heaven by works, they're clearly wrong and I don't consider them Christians. If they are saved, and just like a member of the Catholic church (as heartofgold is here) then I do consider them Christians. That was really my argument against the Cahtolic church - that works cannot get you to heaven. it seems like everyone here agrees with me on that point. NO Catholic believes that all you have to have is good works to get you to heaven. BUT we believe that we HAVE TO HAVE good works. As stated in James 2: 14-25.
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Teckor
Full Member
.........what am I supposed to write? Something inspiring?
Posts: 154
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Post by Teckor on Dec 6, 2005 16:22:50 GMT -5
Couple of things. 1) The Catholic Church does not emphasize salvation by grace. 2) The Catholic Church is wrong (personally) with purgatory. 3) They also have parts of the Bible that don't have any actual Greek scripts to verify. 4) They give (quite frankly) way too much power to certain people over things that they don't have any jurisdiction (ie: the pope has the power to change what is necessary to get out of purgatory)
However, they do have alot of verses or songs that relate to salvation by grace. Plus, they teach alot about Jesus as the Son of God.
So, it is a very close call thoguh in doctorine (with a few minor exceptions). Someone could go to a Catholic Church and yet be a Christian.
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Post by heartofgold on Dec 6, 2005 16:51:13 GMT -5
Catholics do believe you have to have grace, but you also have to have good works. Hence James 2:14-25. Yes, it does. Explain why. Such as... No, the Pope can't change that. Like I said. The Catholic Church cannot change teachings. It can confirm teachings. Oh, and your just jealous that the catholic form of "government" actually works
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Post by Geberia on Dec 6, 2005 19:02:19 GMT -5
What do you all think about Vatican 2? (After that Catholic wedding, heartofgold, I'm glad!!! ;D ;D) I'm with you. I think all Latin masses are a little, um, well you don't participate very much, which is a little annoying. However, I (personally, but most catholics don't think so) like the old prayer book better. I used to be Episcopalian, so I got to say a lot of "thees and thous". I think thats really cool. But the catholic church uses a newer prayer book, they say "You", instead. So overall, I actually like the Episcopalian service better, but don't agree with a lot of what they say (and do). Yeah, that's the reason why I like the King James Bible version the best - still has the good ole Thee's and thou's. Hey - we actually agree on something! miracles do happen LOL, J/K
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Post by falklands on Dec 6, 2005 22:13:32 GMT -5
So, it is a very close call thoguh in doctorine (with a few minor exceptions). Someone could go to a Catholic Church and yet be a Christian. Ooo teckor watch what you say. You have to be saved to be a Christian, not just go to church! Which I'm sure you already know ;D
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ashbash
Junior Member
if u want to know, that's a wine bottle, top down
Posts: 74
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Post by ashbash on Dec 7, 2005 1:10:49 GMT -5
btw, does catholism still have the thing where u buy the thingys that mean forgiveness for stuff? and whats with the hail marys, they don't really do much...
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Post by heartofgold on Dec 7, 2005 11:01:18 GMT -5
No. They got rid of that about, oh, 500 years ago. It was actually just evil people twisting their meaning. The actual church never said you could buy forgiveness.
You're praising Mary and asking her to pray for you.
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Post by falklands on Dec 7, 2005 14:05:17 GMT -5
You're praising Mary and asking her to pray for you. Ah. That's where I disagree. God says "I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images." (Isaiah 42:8)
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