The Bible

[[Satanic] Mikor]

heartofgold said:

What created god then? By your reasoning everything has a cause.
And because you'll say god is eternal, why cant the universe be?

Yes, God is eternal, and I don't need a scientific explanation for that. You however, not having a spiritual realm to explain things, do need a scientific explanation as to why (all of a sudden) the universe is eternal. You don't have one either, which, for me, is the biggest strike against everything just, happening.

Actually, I am quite spiritual, and why cant the universe be eternal?

[Aslan the Great Lion]

geberia said:

How's this - I BELIEVE its a FACT! I wasn't there at Creation, but I believe the FACTS I read in the Bible. I can't see air, but I both KNOW and BELIEVE it is there. The same with God.

In a sermon I heard a few days ago, an intresting point was made - with God, you must first believe, and then he gives you the understanding. The reserrection - the Virgin birth- it dosn't make sense till you believe.

Thank you Geberia. We know it is fact. That is all there is to it. The Bible is fact, so what it says is. And it says God created everything, so it is fact.

[Aslan the Great Lion]

mikor said:

heartofgold said:

Yes, God is eternal, and I don't need a scientific explanation for that. You however, not having a spiritual realm to explain things, do need a scientific explanation as to why (all of a sudden) the universe is eternal. You don't have one either, which, for me, is the biggest strike against everything just, happening.

Actually, I am quite spiritual, and why cant the universe be eternal?

because God says so

[Geb]

I think HoG was trying to say you do not have a belief in God's Word, not that you weren't spiritual. There's a difference between believing in God, and believing what God says.

I don't exactly understand your question - are you asking why the universe can't last forever, or why we do not believe it has been here for eternity? :-\

[[Satanic] Mikor]

Geb said:

I think HoG was trying to say you do not have a belief in God's Word, not that you weren't spiritual. There's a difference between believing in God, and believing what God says.

I don't exactly understand your question - are you asking why the universe can't last forever, or why we do not believe it has been here for eternity? :-\

I'm asking why cant the universe be eternal? why does it need a beginning or end? Both are human concepts.

[Aslan the Great Lion]

because God isn't human, it wasn't made by a human

[[Satanic] Mikor]

rrap said:

because God isn't human, it wasn't made by a human

When did I say he was human or that a human made the universe?
He is just a very powerful angel.

[steelsheen]

The universe can not be eternal, because as we know, entropy exists. However, God is a spirit. Therefore, he is not susceptible to entropy.

[[Satanic] Mikor]

The universe contains everything, even entropy.
Does it have to be effected by its contents?

The truth is, no-one will ever know until someone invents a time machine to go and have a look.
We could keep arguing for years and never reach a conclusion

[steelsheen]

I agree, in a way. The UNIVERSE is not eternal. The universe is just a thing. It will end. However, God is eternal. Alpha, Omega. Beginning, end. Who was, is and is to come. From everlasting to everlasting, He is God.

Time travel? You REALLY think that if it were possible, we wouldn't be flooded with tourists from the future?

[nella]

Good point about having visitors from the future, Steelsheen.

Mikor, if Satan is only a "very powerful angel," why would he be worthy of worship? Why is any created being worthy of worship?? They are not the ultimate, so why are they significant at all?

[[Satanic] Mikor]

I was actually calling your god a very powerful angel.

And tourists from the future wouldnt be allowed because if they made physical contact with anyone here, it would be a paradox and distort the temporal flow.

[Aslan the Great Lion]

mikor said:

I was actually calling your god a very powerful angel.

And tourists from the future wouldnt be allowed because if they made physical contact with anyone here, it would be a paradox and distort the temporal flow.

God is the created and Satan rebelled against him, so he was thrown to Earth.

I am 99.999% sure that timetravel will never happen.

[[Satanic] Mikor]

Why wont it?
Time can be slowed down by traveling very fast...

And thats your belief, mine is that satan wasnt created by 'god'

[steelsheen]

No, 'Time' does not exist, per se. It's a measurement. 'Time' is the human word for our slice of eternity.

And if time travel were possible, you think someone wouldn't break that law? Humans have broken every other law given.

[heartofgold]

I'm asking why cant the universe be eternal? why does it need a beginning or end? Both are human concepts.

Matter has to have a beginning and an end. That's just the way life works. However God, as a spiritual being, doesn't have to have a beginning or end.

And if time travel were possible, you think someone wouldn't break that law? Humans have broken every other law given.

...but probably not in mass numbers. So in other words, you'd have a few people who are sure they saw somebody from the future, and the rest of the world thinks their crazy.
By the way, I have absolutely no opinion on this subject whatsoever. Just thought I'd point that out ;D.

[nella]

I know this thread part of the board is for off-topic stuff, but it seems like we're getting a little off topic about the Bible.

Anyone have a favorite book of the Bible?

[[Satanic] Mikor]

Revelations is pretty good.
Funny that people actually thought that it will happen

[steelsheen]

Proverbs, Job, Revelations, Luke.

[steelsheen]

Time will tell on Revelations.

[Aslan the Great Lion]

mikor said:

Revelations is pretty good.
Funny that people actually thought that it will happen

but it will

[Lily]

Okay, I'm a visitor who happened to stumble across this thread, and there's a few things I'd like to point out.

First of all - Mikor, you say you're a Satanist, and at the same time you say you do not believe the Bible is true. Since the Bible is, in fact, the only written work that proves satan's existence, isn't such a statement a blatant contradiction?

As for the whole evolution debate - I don't know why there isn't a separate thread for it, anyway, and I won't waste too much time arguing it, since it's a topic that's stumped everyone for years. However, suffice to say that those who beleive in Creation (or, let's be more broad and say Intelligent Design, just to be fair) will always come up with evidence to support it, and those who believe in Evolution will always find evidence to argue it. Personally, I have studied evolution in Biology class, and it seems to me like a lot of grasping at straws or a jigsaw puzzle with missing pieces. And, being a very logical and analytical person, I ALWAYS consider facts and evidence objectively before forming an opinion. However, if you choose to believe that it makes sense, you are certainly entitled to your own opinion, as long as you can debate it intelligently.

However, to try to use it to disprove the power of GOd is silly, considering we're in a totally different realm. THe SPIRITUAL realm isn't something we humans can really grasp. Every person, be they Christian, Satanist, atheist, or whateverm has to acknowledge that there's SOMETHING that gives us an enhanced awareness of the world around us, and enables us to feel and have emotions, and to explore abstract concepts (or even have discussions like this one). And it's more that just a superior brain. There's some kind of presence with us - you can call it a soul, or whatever else you want - that makes us human, and not just another animal. That soul is part of a different realm, one that can't be compared with the physical one.
Having established that, would you agree that everything and everyone has the tendency to subject tiself to something higher? Like social structures or politcal systems, there's an order of power, so to speak. As we see in mythology, as well as in every day life, there is authority that promotes balance, and authority that promotes disorder. Given the state of our world, I think it's a logical assumption that there are authorities on the Spiritual realm that promote both, no? You've admitted to believing that (by acknowledging the existence of Satan and of God), then attempted to deny it as well. Again, I see a tendency toward belligerence that leads to self-contradiction.

Here's my honest opinion - you are simply out to cause a stir, and find this a fun place to do so. Now, you may really be a satanist - and if you are, nothing anyone says can stop you, no matter how much everyone here disagrees with your views (and probably will pray for you) - or, you may be pretending just out of boredom, to mess with people and get the attention you want and the satisfaction of getting others wound up. Tell me - is it really that gratifying to go on a site that you KNOW is based around different views than yours, argue about stuff that can't really be argued about, and generally seem immature? I appreciate the desire to debate views and opinions - I love to do it myself - but if you can;t rise above the level of petty arguing, maybe it's time you find other hobbies.

I think I've written more than enough.

~Lily~

[[Satanic] Mikor]

Okay, I'm a visitor who happened to stumble across this thread, and there's a few things I'd like to point out.

Hi there!

First of all - Mikor, you say you're a Satanist, and at the same time you say you do not believe the Bible is true. Since the Bible is, in fact, the only written work that proves satan's existence, isn't such a statement a blatant contradiction?

Nope, what about the al-jilwah? Or how about just asking him yourself?

As for the whole evolution debate - I don't know why there isn't a separate thread for it, anyway, and I won't waste too much time arguing it, since it's a topic that's stumped everyone for years. However, suffice to say that those who beleive in Creation (or, let's be more broad and say Intelligent Design, just to be fair) will always come up with evidence to support it, and those who believe in Evolution will always find evidence to argue it. Personally, I have studied evolution in Biology class, and it seems to me like a lot of grasping at straws or a jigsaw puzzle with missing pieces. And, being a very logical and analytical person, I ALWAYS consider facts and evidence objectively before forming an opinion. However, if you choose to believe that it makes sense, you are certainly entitled to your own opinion, as long as you can debate it intelligently.

You think a magical being creating everything in 6 days flat is more logical that a species slowly adapting over time to suit its environment, thus creating new species? You have a strange sence of logic.....

However, to try to use it to disprove the power of GOd is silly, considering we're in a totally different realm. THe SPIRITUAL realm isn't something we humans can really grasp. Every person, be they Christian, Satanist, atheist, or whateverm has to acknowledge that there's SOMETHING that gives us an enhanced awareness of the world around us, and enables us to feel and have emotions, and to explore abstract concepts (or even have discussions like this one). And it's more that just a superior brain. There's some kind of presence with us - you can call it a soul, or whatever else you want - that makes us human, and not just another animal. That soul is part of a different realm, one that can't be compared with the physical one.

We can grasp the spiritual realm, its just that most people dont!! You should try it sometime, oh wait, the meditations that grant spiritual awareness are satanic! So you cant.

Having established that, would you agree that everything and everyone has the tendency to subject tiself to something higher? Like social structures or politcal systems, there's an order of power, so to speak. As we see in mythology, as well as in every day life, there is authority that promotes balance, and authority that promotes disorder. Given the state of our world, I think it's a logical assumption that there are authorities on the Spiritual realm that promote both, no? You've admitted to believing that (by acknowledging the existence of Satan and of God), then attempted to deny it as well. Again, I see a tendency toward belligerence that leads to self-contradiction.

When did I deny it?

Here's my honest opinion - you are simply out to cause a stir, and find this a fun place to do so. Now, you may really be a satanist -

Which I am...

and if you are, nothing anyone says can stop you, no matter how much everyone here disagrees with your views (and probably will pray for you) - or, you may be pretending just out of boredom, to mess with people and get the attention you want and the satisfaction of getting others wound up. Tell me - is it really that gratifying to go on a site that you KNOW is based around different views than yours, argue about stuff that can't really be argued about, and generally seem immature?

You'd be amazed how fun annoying people can be. By the sound of it, you're pretty annoyed already

I appreciate the desire to debate views and opinions - I love to do it myself - but if you can;t rise above the level of petty arguing, maybe it's time you find other hobbies.

Nah!

I think I've written more than enough.

Yes you have.

[Geberia]

I like the Psalms, Proverbs, 1 John, James, and John.

[Geberia]

I like Romans, Psalms,and Phillipians.