Women in the Military

[Geberia]

What do you think of women being in the military? Is it Biblical? Why or why not?

[nella]

Geb, I'm online if you want to chat.

I don't think it's right. Men are supposed to be the leaders, and when women step in, things go screwy.

[heartofgold]

Why not? The only reason its not in the bible is because woman back then weren't exactly the most respected people. They were supposed to stay home and make clothes. That's changed now what with woman's rights and all that. Woman aren't any less capable then men (believe me, I've met a lot of woman I wouldn't want to meet in a back ally, much less in Iraq when they're holding an Uzi or something).

[nella]

Erm... HoG, I have to disagree.

Adam was created to have dominance over Eve, not the other way around. Not that women are incapable of anything, but men are the leaders. Likewise, men have church leadership, not women. And it was not that women were disrespected. If they were, why was Mary Magdelene, not Peter or John or someone, the first person to see Jesus after the resurrection? The Bible holds women in high regard.

[heartofgold]

Erm... HoG, I have to disagree.

What! Nobody's ever done that to me before!

Adam was created to have dominance over Eve, not the other way around. Not that women are incapable of anything, but men are the leaders.

True, but that doesn't mean all woman need to be the perfect suburban housewives. Does this mean a woman can't start a home business? If a woman's CEO of a big company, does that just smite her? There are differences its true, but those differences don't mean all woman have to stand in a corner with a broom or massage her husbands feet all the time (not that there's anything wrong with that ).

Thus said, thinking through it logically (I am a fairly logical person), woman perhaps don't belong in actual combat (there's a psychological edge that goes along with that, one I don't have), however nursing and other military functions are OK. I think that

and when women step in, things go screwy.

affected me stronger than anything (don't think you mortally offended me or anything though, I'm just saying that's what I disagreed with most). Woman, in functions other than killing people (usually, though I suspect some would be pretty good at it), are just as capable as men.
The problem is, I run into this mindset that if you don't get married and have a family, your a disgrace the woman everywhere. For example some "very conservative" (wacko right-wingers) people won't let their daughters go to collage as its "not there place." I do have a problem with that.

Likewise, men have church leadership, not women.

Very true, but for different reasons.

And it was not that women were disrespected. If they were, why was Mary Magdelene, not Peter or John or someone, the first person to see Jesus after the resurrection? The Bible holds women in high regard.

Exactly. The bible appears to hold woman in high regard, but people in biblical times didn't. Woman, therefore, got there image as broom holders from ancient times and kept it 'till the 20th century when it all changed, for the better, I think. So now woman can have home businesses, instead of just being willing slaves.

[steelsheen]

Like I would massage anybody's feet. Not going to happen.

[nella]

heartofgold said:

The problem is, I run into this mindset that if you don't get married and have a family, your a disgrace the woman everywhere. For example some "very conservative" (wacko right-wingers) people won't let their daughters go to collage as its "not there place." I do have a problem with that.

So do I. In fact, at this point, I don't think I'm going to get married. I didn't say that the only thing women were supposed to do is have kids and run the house.

John MacArthur has some great thoughts on the role of women in general. His chapter on Eve in Twelve Extraordinary Women was absolutely thrilling. I will bring some quotes down later. Right now I'm supposed to be doing science

~Nella

[heartofgold]

I'm supposed to be doing English ;D.

I don't want to make it sound like there's something wrong with getting married. In fact, I think that's probably the best thing you can do with your life is have a nice big family (unless your the middle child, e.g. me). I'm just saying not everybody does it, and for those of you who don't, you are allowed to basically do whatever you want.

[Geberia]

I'm finished with school muhaha Well, here's my take on it - I think women are good in the army as far as nurses and cooks, but combat? Women were supposed to and DID stay at home in the Bible, but that dosn't mean they were not involved in the war. Some of them were war heros!!! ( Jael, for example) I think that when you have men and women together on, say a ship or something for months, there's a much bigger temptation to sin, even when the person is already married.

[grerry]

Women should not be fighting. However they could strategic stuff.

[nella]

Yep, ditto Grerry and Geb. Strategizing, nursing, and the like are all good, but I don't think women should be in combat. Good point about Jael! I thought of her the other day, but not in that context.

HoG, I know, of course not everyone is called to marriage. In fact, sometimes people that want to get married have different views on what marriage should be like. This is a bad example because the subjects are just kids, but these two preteens at my church both like each other. The guy wants to have seven kids, and the girl thinks she can't handle more than two.

Wow, what did that have to do with anything?? *re-reads story...*

Middle children, unite! I think the middle kid gets short changed on just about everything, and I'm not just saying that because I am one. The youngest is pampered, and the eldest has the "claim to fame" of being the eldest. The only situation where I have seen the middle child favored is if that middle child is the first/only son. Yet another reason I don't want a family. I'm just not good with kids. Then again, take Ian. A baby girl took one look at him and screamed!! :-D And no, I didn't make that up!!

~Nella

[steelsheen]

Women can't fight my tush! It all depends on what we are fighting for. If someone were to try to hurt one of my brothers, they would find themselves with a face full of a little fury!

[nella]

LOL. Amen, Steelsheen!

[gynovia]

steelsheen said:

Women can't fight my tush! It all depends on what we are fighting for. If someone were to try to hurt one of my brothers, they would find themselves with a face full of a little fury!

yeah, thats a whole different kind of fighting. More like fighting in self-defence or somthing like that.....ahhh! that made no sense....nevermind

[steelsheen]

Well, think- if we were being invaded, would you pick up a gun and fight to protect your country? I sure as hell is a place would. I would not stop being a woman, it would break my heart, but I would do it, so that someone else wouldn't have to. So my baby brother's wouldn't get hurt- I would do anything to keep them safe.

[heartofgold]

HoG, I know, of course not everyone is called to marriage. In fact, sometimes people that want to get married have different views on what marriage should be like. This is a bad example because the subjects are just kids, but these two preteens at my church both like each other. The guy wants to have seven kids, and the thinks she can't handle more than two.

The fact that they are preteens depresses me. Anybody can get any they want except me (somehow I feel like Woody Allen).

Yea, I dunno what that had to do with anything either .

[gynovia]

heartofgold said:

HoG, I know, of course not everyone is called to marriage. In fact, sometimes people that want to get married have different views on what marriage should be like. This is a bad example because the subjects are just kids, but these two preteens at my church both like each other. The guy wants to have seven kids, and the thinks she can't handle more than two.

The fact that they are preteens depresses me.

i agree with you...preteens are discussing how many kids they want to have??? thats just...not right....
.......but, anyways, i'm getting off topic.

[Geberia]

steelsheen said:

Well, think- if we were being invaded, would you pick up a gun and fight to protect your country? I sure as hell is a place would. I would not stop being a woman, it would break my heart, but I would do it, so that someone else wouldn't have to. So my baby brother's wouldn't get hurt- I would do anything to keep them safe.

Yes, I would do the same, I think. I'm not trying to make it sound like women can't be patriotic and serve their country. Just that women going overseas and being in physical combat probably isn't the greatest idea.....

[nella]

gynovia said:

heartofgold said:

The fact that they are preteens depresses me.

i agree with you...preteens are discussing how many kids they want to have??? thats just...not right....
.......but, anyways, i'm getting off topic.

Haha-- you know Mikey D., the weird flirt from church I told you 'bout? Well, when he used to have a crush on me, he told me I was going to marry him, we would have two girls (he said boys were too much trouble), and that their names would be Ruth and Bethany. That's going extreme ;D

I guess another reason why I don't believe in women fighting in the military is because biblical womenhood has been so cheapened today that people rarely know what it means to be a woman. The lines are so blurred between manly occupations and womanly ones. If guys would be men, would girls be ladies?

~Nella

[LilyJ]

I don't think there's anything wrong with women in combat, as long as they're capable of going through the same training as men! If a woman is strong enough (physically and mentally) to tough out, say, boot camp, then shouldn't she be strong enough to fight? It shouldn't be a question of gender, it should be a question of capability!

[nella]

That's just the thing. It isn't a question of capability. Are women capable of writing and delievering sermons and challanges? Yes. They are just as capable at writing, if not more capable, than some men... even pastors! That is certainly not an issue of capability at all. Women pastors are expressly forbidden in 1 Timothy 2 because it is a form of submission to male leadership.

~Nella

[LilyJ]

Pastors and Preists, I've always understood, are men because the Apostles were male, becuase Jesus chose men to start and lead THE CHURCH. Not in every situation.

But military has nothing to do with leadership - it's about defending your country, your honor and freedom. And women have every bit as much of a right to do that as men. If I as a woman went up to some military leader and demanded that they let me fight, and they told me no, I'd watn a very good reason why I can't have the same right to protect myself and the ones I love as ever male out there.

That aside, though, I'll be darned if I ever submit to any man!!!! (Aside from teachers etc., of course, when the submission is for other reasons....)

[nella]

lilyj said:

That aside, though, I'll be darned if I ever submit to any man!!!! (Aside from teachers etc., of course, when the submission is for other reasons....)

I hope you will gladly submit to your husband!

Alex and Brett had a really good article that slightly touches on the seperate roles of men and women, touching on submission to chivalry. Very good article.

www.therebelution.com/blog/2006/08/modern-day-gentleman/

~Nella

[LilyJ]

Well, marriage is a mutual committment where both people work together and submit to each other. Sure, I'll respect my husband and consider his ideas when they go against my own, but I won't let him tell me what I can and can't do! Trust me, I've seen where that goes, and it's not exactly pretty.

[steelsheen]

He wants me to call him 'my lord' he better start ACTING like 'my lord!' And people call me a tomboy, just because I can do some... umm... boyish.... things. Ok, so I can fire a gun, climb trees to beat a squirrel, and I used to study combat.

Here is what I say always say! 'I'm not a tomboy- I'm a lady.'