Do you believe in Predestination?

[falklands]

I definitely do not believe in Predestination. I don't know if anyone else does here, but if you do, tell me ;D

Falklands

[Geberia]

Hmm, good topic... i was gonna start one like this once. No, I do not believe in predestination and here is my argument

1) God knows who will be saved, but he "is not willing that ANY should perish, but that all should come to repentance." God wants everyone to be saved. Will that happen? Obviously not. Predestination is not in accordance with this verse.
2) Why would God have given us the Great Commision? If a certain number of people were going to get saved, then they are going to get saved cuz its God's will, or so predestination says. If that were true, why are we commanded to "go and preach the gospel to every creature." when they would just be saved anyways?

[Teckor]

No.

Although, not to be confusing, there is in a way a sort of predestination. Hear me out, if God knows everything, then the future cannot be changed. So, in a way there is... kinda ... Just something that kinda gets me.

[falklands]

Another verse like your one, Geberia, is 1 Timothy 2:3-4: "God our Saviour…wills everyone to be saved and to come to knowledge of the truth."

Oh, and could you cite the reference? I like to know the sources of such Bible quotes so I can use them in the future.

Although, not to be confusing, there is in a way a sort of predestination. Hear me out, if God knows everything, then the future cannot be changed. So, in a way there is... kinda ... Just something that kinda gets me.

I know what you're talking about. If God knows everything, then he knows who is going to get saved. This poses a little problem but rest safe in the consolation that nobody else knows. Only God knows who will be saved in the end and that because he knows what choices of free-will we will make in the future. It's still your choice, and even though God knows what choice you will make, you don't know, right?

[gynovia]

No. I mean, whats the point in John 3:16 if God predestines?
For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

[Teckor]

Interesting way around it

And yes, predestination would "negate" (in a manner) John 3:16.

[falklands]

geberia said:

2) Why would God have given us the Great Commision? If a certain number of people were going to get saved, then they are going to get saved cuz its God's will, or so predestination says. If that were true, why are we commanded to "go and preach the gospel to every creature." when they would just be saved anyways?

The "Predestinationalists" would reply that God foresaw those who were going to preach the gospel and used them as the instrument of his predestination. For, they might quote from the Bible, "who will believe who does not hear the gospel"? I'll leave it to you to form a response ;D

[Armany]

I suppose that I disagree with the theory of predestination. Never heard much about it, but from what I've read here, it seems to be un-Biblical.

God knows everything that will happen and has happened. He know whether you or I are going to Heaven of Hell. He's seen it. He's seen the choices that we'll make in our lifetimes. We, in this time we have, are making choices out of our free will. God has just seen what we're going to do in advance.

That's my take on it.

[Aslan the Great Lion]

I think this is a complicated topic. God knows if we are going to heaven before we are born, but he gives us the choice to serve him and follow him, but he already knows what we are going to do. So we are predestined because God knows what we are going to before we do, like becoming a Christian, but he has given us a choice. The choice we do make though is already known to God. Nothing is going to surprise him. He gives you rules to follow and you have freedom to do what you want, with consequences, but God already knows what that choice and consequence is going to be.

It sounds like you are all saying what I am saying, so how can you not believe in predesitination? God knows all, so he has a plan for your life. You can't not follow that plan.

[falklands]

rrap said:

I think this is a complicated topic. God knows if we are going to heaven before we are born, but he gives us the choice to serve him and follow him, but he already knows what we are going to do. So we are predestined because God knows what we are going to before we do, like becoming a Christian, but he has given us a choice. The choice we do make though is already known to God. Nothing is going to surprise him. He gives you rules to follow and you have freedom to do what you want, with consequences, but God already knows what that choice and consequence is going to be.

It sounds like you are all saying what I am saying, so how can you not believe in predesitination? God knows all, so he has a plan for your life. You can't not follow that plan.

You are confusing Predestination with Foreknowledge. Predestination is the belief that God chooses who will go to heaven and who will go to hell. It means that you don't have free will and that God, besides knowing all things, decides them. It is this that we disagree with. You said "you can't not follow that plan [for your life]". Oh, yes you can "not follow" God's plan. And there are consequences. Everyone has the choice whether to accept him or not, but sometimes when people reject him, he uses that to do some good in another person's life, but he did not decide that that particular person would go to Hell. He wouldn't, however, because that would contravene Scripture, for "God our Saviour...wills everyone to be saved and to come to knowledge of the truth".

EDIT: I mean "He wouldn't decide that particular person would go to Hell." My sentence was a little messed up and could have caused confusion ;D

[Aslan the Great Lion]

He doesn't want people to, but he knows that some will before they are born. That is my opinion and thanks for clearing up the two topics for me.