Noah's Flood

[ApologeticChrist]

Alright, there is a whole lot of contravercy about Noah's Flood, probably the biggest thing in Christianity's list of "Things Atheists Attack" other than the Creation.

So, what was the flood? Where was it? How did it effect the world and what things in todays world has it caused? Tangible evidence?

Just want to see what you think.

-R. S. of UC

[Triphus (Titanian)]

Hey Apologetic Christ here is the insert from my former youth paster's e-mail.

"For instance, Noah's ark...

There are a number of cultures with stories similar to Noah's ark. Most
of those stories say that there were only eight survivors. Those
cultures include:

Jewish and Christian (of course)
American Indian
Peruvian
Chinese
Other south American cultures
And a number of other cultures in the middle east

The list goes on and on. It is nice to see you thinking about such
things. Remember that God is real. He is even more real than science.
The Bible is not a machine that can be proved or disproved by finding
its parts. The Bible is a living breathing thing that speaks to us
today.

We know that the Bible was written outside of our space and time because
it has the ability to predict the future and it knows of things that we
can not begin to comprehend."

[Armany]

Amen to that, Titanian!

Okay, but seriously, there have been many people who have claimed to have seen the Ark, even within the last century or two. Also, I've heard of some sort of monastery up in Ararat that had relics of the Ark or something before it was buried in an avalanche.

The inevitable claim of any atheist, just like they attack Jesus' resurrection, is that all the water in the world could not have possibly covered the Earth, with all the mts. Well, what if in a pre-Flood world, there were no mountains, and that they only were formed by geologic pressures underwent during the Flood?

Another attack common to atheists is that Noah couldn't have fit every animal into the Ark. However, the majority of animal species are insects, and they are overlooking the fact that this Ark was larger than what they think.

I probably skimmed over some things, and I'll go into more detail later, after your responses.

[Vanador]

Well first thing that i wont to say is that i agree that the water on this earth could not cober ebery part of it. But the bible says that the flood gates were opened. so by that i am gesing that the water that covered the earth was not already hear. but sent to earth inorder to cover every squair inch. Then when the waters were blown away i think that God took the Excess water that was there and got rid of it in some way inorder for us to survive on the planet.

Noahs ark on the other hand I dont think will ever be found by anybudy on earth. I think that ether over time the ard decayed and became part of the earth again or it was taken to heaven as a simbole of Noahs dedication to Him.

the bible dosent really say what hapend to the ark but those are the two things that are most likely to have happend. if any budy disagrees with me i would be more than willing to hear what they have to say.

[Triphus (Titanian)]

Didn't they find a boat in the Red Sea that they believe to be the Ark because it had the same demensions?

[ApologeticChrist]

This is true, there are many flood stories in cultures, but since most cultures start on rivers, wouldn't that be expected?

If you melt the ice caps, the water level of earth raises 300 feet, covering everything save mountain ranges and possibly more. Plus, it had never rained before.

There are no settlements on Arrarat. It is within a military zone and that is part of why it is so hard to go up and look for ark rements, the Turkish government will not allow them to go up at certain difficult military moments.

Interesting the theories we come up with when the Bible doesn't specifically say.

Continue, this is interesting to see.

-R. S. of UC

[Vanador]

every religion has a story that deals with the flood and some of them deal with gates of some kind being opened or of water of some kind, weather it is a river or a ocean.

the ark has been said to me found in multiple places all over the world. So it is hard to know weather the ark has accualy been found. Also if it was found in the ocean there is a high posabilty of the ship being that of one that was used way bac when the ships were wooden.

[Armany]

A river flood and a global flood are two different things. However, I don't doubt that some people tended to exaggerate a lot back in ancient times, but looking at the immensity of the flood stories avaliable to modern scholars, I don't think that hundreds would exaggerate that much.

Also, the Epic of Gilgamesh, an ancient Mesopotamian story, tells a flood rendition almost exactly as that of the Bible. You've got a main, just character, a revelation by God (although the Gilgamesh story was pagan), and a global flood. It is more than eerily similar and only helps the credibility of our Flood. One could argue that it was simply a literary copy by Moses, but in light of all of Moses' other writings and his authorship of 5 Torah books, I doubt that those allegations are solidly based.

[Mop]

I think that by now, the ark would be long gone, due to rotting wood. Also, if it was below water level, then it would also be covered in seaweed, and possibly, if not probably sand and/or rocks.

[ApologeticChrist]

Look into the creation of the Black Sea. Might be interesting reading.

-R. S. of UC

[GDL]

the flood wasn't limited to one part of the world it happened every where on it.And only the people inside of the Ark lived.

[ApologeticChrist]

Try reading Genesis 6:1-8:22 and replace the word "earth" with "land" as in the land of the middle east. Assume all persons at this time live within the Middle East, which I feel is reasonable. Also, it removes the slight problem of an ark that is only 450 feet long, 75 feet wide and 45 feet wide (aproximate based on an average cubit) carrying the 2,000,000 identified or the extimated 10,000,000 species in the world, as well as Noah completing the task in only seven days. Wouldn't it be simpler for him to take care of only a few hundred species instead?

Granted, God could have worked miracles with Noah, but in my opinion the "land" translation works a little better and makes more sense.

-R. S. of UC

[GDL]

Genesis 7:1-24
Finally the day came when the Lord said to Noah, "Go into the boat with all your family,for among all the people on the [glow=red,2,300]EARTH[/glow],I consider you alone to be righteous.Bring in the animals ,too-a pair each, except those kinds I have chosen for eating and for sacrifice: take seven pairs of each of them,and seven pairs of every bird. Thus there will be every kind of life reproducing again after the flood has ended.One week from today I will begin forty day and nights of rain; and all the animals and birds and reptiles I have made will die.SO Noah did everything the lord commanded him. He was 600 years old when the flood came. He boarded the boat with his wife and sons and there wives,to escape the flood.With him were all the various kinds of animals-those for eating and sacrifice,and those that were not, and the birds and reptiles.They came into the boat in pairs,male and female,just as God commanded Noah.One week later when NOah was 600 years,2 months,and 17 days old,the rain came down in mighty torrents from the sky,
and the subterranean waters burst forth upon the earth for forty days and forty nights. But Noah had gone into the Boat that very day.with his wife and his sons,Shem, Ham and Japeth,and there wives. With them in the boat were pairs of every kind of animal -domestic and wild-and reptiles and birds of every sort. Two by two they came, male and female just as God had commanded. Then the Lord God closed the door and shut them in. For forty days the roaring floods prevailed, covering the ground lifting the boat high above the earth. As the water rose higher and higher above the ground, the boat floated safely upon it; until finally the water covered [glow=red,2,300]all[/glow]the high mountains under the [glow=red,2,300]whole heaven,[/glow]standing 22 feet and more above the highest peaks. And all living things upon the earth perished - birds, domestic and wild animals,and reptiles and [glow=red,2,300]all[/glow] mankind-everything that lived and breathed upon dry land.[glow=red,2,300]all existence on the earth was blotted out [/glow]-man and animals alike,and reptiles and birds.God destroyed them [glow=red,2,300]all,leaving only Noah alive, and those with him in the boat.And the water covered the earth for 150 days.[/glow]

[Armany]

Aren't the vast majority of animals insects, though, AC? If so, then all the animals would make an easier fit.

[GDL]

like god told noah.All animals.

[ApologeticChrist]

Alright, the ark is 75 ft. by 45 ft. by 450 ft. That is a total of 1,518,750 cubic feet. This is around the space provided in an aircraft carrier (650x80x23 or 1,196,000 cubic feet). Each carrier (American ones anyway) carry about 6000 people with provisions for at least a year of continuous service without refueling. In order to honestly do much more, I'd have to do some serious zoological research. While it may be possible that it all happened, it would have been really cramped in that ark, especially with food for 150 days. Bringing all the animals to the ark would have definately been a miracle of God, as well as constructing the whole thing in seven days. The greatest problem many geologists would have with the flood is that there is no physical evidence with the exception of the Black Sea region.

I'm looking for answers... and I'm having difficulty finding them. Someone want to try their hand at explaining their views?

-R. S. of UC

[Triphus (Titanian)]

You know, as much as I would like to know everything, I can't. And I think somethings like this are meant to be trusted by faith.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm a scientist at heart I mean I will search and search something until I find the answer, but even I have to come down to faith that God knew what he was and is doing.

[GDL]

Well said Titanian!!! ;D

[Armany]

Bravo!

[ApologeticChrist]

You're telling me it doesn't bother you even the slightest that there is nearly zero physical evidence of the Flood? And I grant this is off topic, but the fossil record definately does not match with the Creation. That doesn't bother you either?

I have my own answer, but it isn't quite satisfying me. At the risk of sounding like an idiot, I ask you why?

-R. S. of UC

[GDL]

No it doesn't bother me.And guess what I don't really want to know how god does it he said that's how it happened and I belive that.SO wether or not that's enough for you his word is enough for me.Because if you can't trut his word,then who can you trust?

[Armany]

Okay, this has been eating me up lately, but since there is supposedly "zero evidence" of Creation, the Flood, or anything, then why do you believe it, AC? Don't take that as an insult, but I've been wondering about it.

I will refrain from answering most of your questions, though, because it will go off of Noah's Flood and go into evolution. I suggest we move over to the "Evolution" thread and then duke . . . I mean debate . . . it out over there.

[GDL]

ApologeticChrist said:

Alright, the ark is 75 ft. by 45 ft. by 450 ft. That is a total of 1,518,750 cubic feet. This is around the space provided in an aircraft carrier (650x80x23 or 1,196,000 cubic feet). Each carrier (American ones anyway) carry about 6000 people with provisions for at least a year of continuous service without refueling. In order to honestly do much more, I'd have to do some serious zoological research. While it may be possible that it all happened, it would have been really cramped in that ark, especially with food for 150 days. Bringing all the animals to the ark would have definately been a miracle of God, as well as constructing the whole thing in seven days. The greatest problem many geologists would have with the flood is that there is no physical evidence with the exception of the Black Sea region.

I'm looking for answers... and I'm having difficulty finding them. Someone want to try their hand at explaining their views?

-R. S. of UC

I don't care what they think.And it landed on top of Mt.Arrat(can't spell it) not in the Black sea.

[Triphus (Titanian)]

Armany and GDL you guys are exactly right!!!!!

Who cares what they think! We know the truth and the truth will set us free!

[ApologeticChrist]

I believe because God told the earth this. He is the only one who can truly know, and the only eyewitness who lives. He has proven Himself right over and over when I have had to kneel and ask for mercy for my arrogance.

But you and I and all here know, God is very big on where and when, but not so much on why.

-R. S. of UC