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Post by Armany on Oct 11, 2005 14:37:47 GMT -5
I don't think Joshua is so much about the violence as it is about the history factor of it. It is very disturbing to me that God would command His people to slaughter entire populations, and it is one of the things that I struggle with the most when reading the Bible. It just doesn't seem to fit.
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Post by Geberia on Oct 11, 2005 18:54:57 GMT -5
I can believe it. I think that somewhere in those people's history, they had rejected and turned away from God. So he killed them. If there really was any good people in those cities, I believe God would have saved them ( such as Rahab.) We don't know how bad the people really were though, since the Bible normally shows the Israelites side.
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Post by Armany on Oct 11, 2005 19:08:05 GMT -5
I understand that, and I have even read of the behavior of the people in the land of Canaan that would make me want to the kill them. However, I just can't come to terms with the infinite love that God presents in the New Testament and the seeming cruelty he exhibits in the Old. I don't know everything about the people in the land of Canaan back then and I am certainly not trying to accuse God of anything. I simply don't understand it.
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Post by Armany on Oct 11, 2005 19:13:10 GMT -5
For example, in the Old Testament, death was the punishment for committing adultery. However, Jesus pardoned Mary Magdalene in the New Testament. I don't really understand what the change is between both circumstances, so if someone could please explain it I would appreciate it.
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Post by Geberia on Oct 12, 2005 10:48:49 GMT -5
Probably it was because he was showing that the end of the law was coming. Like when Jesus came and died, sacrificing of animals was abolished, so maybe he was showing that death for adultery was abolished? I'm not totally clear there either, I confess! :-)
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bimbettes
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God is love. Those who live in love live in God, and God lives in them!
Posts: 165
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Post by bimbettes on Oct 12, 2005 12:15:34 GMT -5
yeh im confused for the same reasons as armany it jus doesnt fit but i suppose i get what ur sayin too geberia- its a nice way to think bout it!
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Post by gynovia on Oct 13, 2005 9:35:49 GMT -5
its a possibility
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Post by Armany on Oct 14, 2005 10:48:20 GMT -5
Yeah, that does kind of make sense. I still don't entirely understand it, though.
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Post by gynovia on Oct 15, 2005 9:25:23 GMT -5
i don't think that anyone can completely understand the Bible.(i know i don't!  ) i think that some things are just mysteries that we'll have to ask God about when get 2 heaven! of course that doesn't mean that we sit back and not try to read or study his word. |
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bimbettes
Full Member
God is love. Those who live in love live in God, and God lives in them!
Posts: 165
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Post by bimbettes on Oct 16, 2005 5:26:37 GMT -5
Yeh actually I was thinkin about it and i realised the bible said that we couldnt understand it all! so its OK lol ;D its sumthin in 2corinthians 13 i think like just now we only have partial understanding but then we'll no the truth as usual thats pretty cool lol |
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Post by gynovia on Oct 17, 2005 16:59:48 GMT -5
i'm sure we all have questions to ask when we get to heaven. yeah, i'ts very cool.
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Post by New Titania (TD) on Oct 17, 2005 23:32:46 GMT -5
However, I just can't come to terms with the infinite love that God presents in the New Testament and the seeming cruelty he exhibits in the Old. I can understand how you feel this way, Armany. God's grace is ever-present in the OT, however...especially in Genesis. One example, God stoops down to the earth to breathe the breath of Life into Adam's nostrils. |
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Post by gynovia on Oct 18, 2005 10:25:07 GMT -5
speaking of noses  , its the only sense that you cant sin with. all the others, eyes, ears, touch and mouth you can sin w/. i think its because of when God breathed into Adam, and whatever God touches is perfect. isn't that kinda cool? just a thought. |
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bimbettes
Full Member
God is love. Those who live in love live in God, and God lives in them!
Posts: 165
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Post by bimbettes on Oct 18, 2005 12:34:53 GMT -5
That is more than kinda cool lol what a brilliant thought I'll remeber that for a long time! ;D
B
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Post by Armany on Oct 18, 2005 17:09:42 GMT -5
Interesting tid-bit about the nose thing!
Yeah, God does show infinite grace in the OT. I just was troubled about the violence part. But thanks, everyone, for trying to help me understand. ;D
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Post by gynovia on Oct 19, 2005 11:01:49 GMT -5
yah
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Teckor
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.........what am I supposed to write? Something inspiring?
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Post by Teckor on Nov 27, 2005 17:55:00 GMT -5
I understand that, and I have even read of the behavior of the people in the land of Canaan that would make me want to the kill them. However, I just can't come to terms with the infinite love that God presents in the New Testament and the seeming cruelty he exhibits in the Old. I don't know everything about the people in the land of Canaan back then and I am certainly not trying to accuse God of anything. I simply don't understand it. Something though that I'd like to point out is that God is loving but the ultimate judge. He knows what is truely right and wrong and exicutes judgement accordingly. Kinda like how God punishes Isreal for doing the wrong things, but then punishes those that he used to punish Isreal b/c he promised that He would "bless those that bless you" and "curse those that curse you". He's a God of love but of judgement and turth also. |
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Post by falklands on Dec 1, 2005 17:12:23 GMT -5
Right there Teckor. The Bible says, "the wages of sin is death." Every single one of us deserves an eternity in Hell for sinning against God. All God did was completely just in the OT. One might say, "but then God isn't fair!" Well, God is NOT fair. No, he is better than that. If God were fair, then I'd be deep in a hole right now with no way of getting out. (I got that last sentiment from some other Christian site.)
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Teckor
Full Member
.........what am I supposed to write? Something inspiring?
Posts: 154
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Post by Teckor on Dec 2, 2005 16:40:24 GMT -5
Right there Teckor. The Bible says, "the wages of sin is death." Every single one of us deserves an eternity in Hell for sinning against God. All God did was completely just in the OT. One might say, "but then God isn't fair!" Well, God is NOT fair. No, he is better than that. If God were fair, then I'd be deep in a hole right now with no way of getting out. (I got that last sentiment from some other Christian site.) But God is just, those who haven't accepted Christ do die (spiritually) but it is because of God's love that we aren't all doomed to Hell and that we have a chance to be with Him in Heaven. Otherwise, everyone would be in Heaven and there would have been no need for the Book of Revelation or the gospels or even for Hell, because God would be so loving and not just enough to judge everyone properly. ie: those who haven't accepted God shouldn't really go to be with Him. but if God isn't just then he wouldn't have set down any rules or restrictions. (yeah, I know it sounds like I'm condemning people but the truth hurts doesn't it?) |
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Post by falklands on Dec 2, 2005 16:43:07 GMT -5
But God is just, those who haven't accepted Christ do die (spiritually) but it is because of God's love that we aren't all doomed to Hell and that we have a chance to be with Him in Heaven. Otherwise, everyone would be in Heaven and there would have been no need for the Book of Revelation or the gospels or even for Hell, because God would be so loving and not just enough to judge everyone properly. ie: those who haven't accepted God shouldn't really go to be with Him. but if God isn't just then he wouldn't have set down any rules or restrictions. (yeah, I know it sounds like I'm condemning people but the truth hurts doesn't it?) I know, teckor. He is both Justice and Love. |
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Post by steelsheen on Dec 2, 2005 16:59:37 GMT -5
WAAAY up at the top, Armany says he does not understand how there could be such infinite love and also such hatred (old and New testaments) In the old testament, Faith and rghteousness were counted as salvation, but there had been no sacrifice, there was no real forgiveness of sins. So God killed them. And int he New testament, the debt had been paid, the sins blotted out if they were accepting of the Salvation offered.
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Post by steelsheen on Dec 2, 2005 17:04:27 GMT -5
Also- doesn't God himself say that we can't understand him? His ways are not our ways, His thoughts are not our thoughts? Man's wisdom is God's folly, a proverb says... there is so much we don't and can't understand... how do we know what would have happened if some (I hesitate to say this, but the synonym is not coming to mind) races had been allowed to live?
What would change? All that happens happens for a reason.
I believe that with all my heart. And sometimes you can't see why things are the way they are, why things happen to you, until you can see that you can help someone else. God just does not think the way we do. We think small, because that's what we are. He thinks infinitely, because that's what He is...
Sorry if that was rambly.
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Teckor
Full Member
.........what am I supposed to write? Something inspiring?
Posts: 154
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Post by Teckor on Dec 5, 2005 16:16:11 GMT -5
WAAAY up at the top, Armany says he does not understand how there could be such infinite love and also such hatred (old and New testaments) In the old testament, Faith and rghteousness were counted as salvation, but there had been no sacrifice, there was no real forgiveness of sins. So God killed them. And int he New testament, the debt had been paid, the sins blotted out if they were accepting of the Salvation offered. Also- doesn't God himself say that we can't understand him? His ways are not our ways, His thoughts are not our thoughts? Man's wisdom is God's folly, a proverb says... there is so much we don't and can't understand... how do we know what would have happened if some (I hesitate to say this, but the synonym is not coming to mind) races had been allowed to live? What would change? All that happens happens for a reason. I believe that with all my heart. And sometimes you can't see why things are the way they are, why things happen to you, until you can see that you can help someone else. God just does not think the way we do. We think small, because that's what we are. He thinks infinitely, because that's what He is... Sorry if that was rambly. True on everything that I know of. Although, one thing though is the fact that salvation hasn't really changed. It is still mostly faith. In the Old Testament, God promised a Messiah. And they put their faith that this Messiah would cleanse them of their sins (enabling them to go from Abraham's Bossom to Heaven). In the New Testament, the promised Messiah has come. The only thing though is that we have to put our faith in Him and that He can cleanse our sins and will. Also, I don't think God has an unjustified "hate". He is wrathful, vengeful, etc. but it is all justified. And you are way too true about Gods thoughts being strange from ours but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to understand what we can about Him, after all, we can understand that He loves us. |
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Hillsong United 2003
) i think that some things are just mysteries that we'll have to ask God about when get 2 heaven! of course that doesn't mean that we sit back and not try to read or study his word.
, its the only sense that you cant sin with. all the others, eyes, ears, touch and mouth you can sin w/. i think its because of when God breathed into Adam, and whatever God touches is perfect. isn't that kinda cool? just a thought.
